What? You mean to say you don't believe in demons, angels, and the
spirit world.
Yeah, and I don't believe in ghosts and poltergeists either.
But the Bible says, "and He will set his angels to protect you."
First off, in the Bible, it was the devil that said that. (1)
Yeah, but Jesus cast out demons. How can you not believe in demons?
They believed in a lot of things in Bible times that I don't believe in. They believed the world was flat and that the sun was towed across the sky in a cart and it rained when angels flew up and opened the windows of heaven. I don't believe any of that either.
That's not the same. Jesus commanded the demons to come out of people. That means there were demons in the people.
Look, back then they thought epilepsy was caused by demon possession. They thought psychoses were caused by demon possession too. In some of the cases of demon possession described in the Bible the symptoms are identical to the symptoms of epilepsy. In some cases they are describing schizophrenia or mania or other psychological disorders. I do believe in epilepsy and schizophrenia. I just have a different explanation of the cause than they had back then.
Well Christians have always believed in a spirit world. The Bible teaches it and I believe it.
You don't have to believe in a spirit world to be a Christian. I can see it now. The Philippian jailer asks Paul, "What must I do to be saved?" and Paul replies, "Believe in Jesus and also in demons and angels and ghosts and ouija boards and séances and thou shalt be saved."
Well how do you explain the testimony of people who have actually been demon possessed.
Like who?
Like the lady in that video they showed at Church a few weeks ago. She had gotten mixed up with spiritualists and started going to fortunetellers and channelers and other new age stuff. Pretty soon she was channeling different spirits and they started taking control of her and making her do stuff and she almost couldn't get away from them but Jesus set her free.
I'm not saying a person can't have the experience that their life is out of control or that they can't feel like they aren't in control of things any more. That happens to lots of people. I'm also not saying that people don't have demons they have to fight. Addiction is a demon. There are the demons of self-doubt, depression, explosive temper, and lots of other demons that people have to fight. And I'm not saying that Jesus can't help them control or defeat those demons. I also believe that people can have various good and evil spirits such as the spirits of jealousy and envy, kindness and generosity. And I believe in some very evil spirits like the guy that lures young boys into his apartment, rapes and kills them, eats parts of them and stores their heads in his freezer.
Ok, so do you believe in demons or don't you believe in demons? Now you are telling me you believe in demons.
Yes, I guess so. What I'm saying is my understanding of demons
and spirits is different than the understanding they had back in the dark
ages.
I believe in epilepsy. I believe that if a person who has epilepsy
is sitting in a third story window and has a seizure they can fall from
the window and be killed. In Bible times they would have said their epilepsy
threw them down from the window and killed them. I don't believe when a
person with epilepsy dies that the epilepsy leaves their body and goes
wandering around the world looking for someone else to live in.
Well of course not, that would be stupid.
I think other spirits work the same way. For example, if some guy becomes so obsessed with jealousy that it is like he has become a different person. His whole personality changes. He starts stalking his ex-girlfriend. He spends his entire life on his obsession. Then one day he goes over the line and attacks her. She pulls a pistol from her purse and kills the stalker in self-defense. I don't believe that when he dies, the spirit of jealousy leaves his body and prowls the world looking for someone else to infect. I believe the jealousy was something in him and it died with him. And I don't believe that when the serial killer is executed, the evil in him leaves his body and moves into somebody else, even if it would make a great Stephen King novel. (2)
But demons take control of people and make them do things sometimes.
Look, every day when I drive to work I go the same way. It has
become such a habit that I don't have to think about it. I just automatically
turn left at this corner and right at that corner and end up in the parking
lot. The other day I was going to WalMart. I guess I was thinking about
something else or listening to the radio or something and next thing I
knew I was pulling into the parking lot at work. And I am like, O shit,
what am I doing here, I was going to WalMart.
You could say something other than me took control of my car and
drove me someplace I didn't want to go. It was like the car had a mind
of its own. But I think a better explanation is that I was responding to
my conditioning. My habits took control. It was Stimulus-Response. I just
don't believe that after I took back the control of my car and went to
WalMart that some spirit left my car and went roaming the streets looking
for someone else's car to possess.
And of course, I'm always on a diet. So I can't tell you how many
times I've decided not to eat anything else before morning. I've had all
the calories I'm allowed for the day. So then I'm sitting watching TV and
all of a sudden I find myself standing in the kitchen staring into the
refrigerator. And I am like, O crap, how did I get here. I'm not going
to eat anything. Then I go sit down and a little while later, there I am
looking in the refrigerator again. In the dark ages, people explained these
things by attributing them to demons and spirits making them do stuff.
So you think there is nothing more to the spirit world than habits and conditioning.
Yeah, but, I think these spirits are incredibly powerful. They can destroy a person or a whole family. Look at the evil in Hitler. It destroyed a nation and threatened the whole world. I have as much respect for these spirits and what they can do as anyone. I believe in their power. I just don't think you have to believe in invisible creatures that have a separate consciousness, make decisions and set goals for themselves, etc., in order to be a true Christian. I just refuse to believe that you have to be superstitious and hold a bunch of pre-scientific beliefs to be a Christian.
Well science doesn't have all the answers either.
Of course not, it just has a hell of a lot more of the answers than any other approach has ever had.
Except Jesus.
Different question.
2 Pre-scientific superstitious beliefs
have been kept alive in our society largely by the entertainment industry.
Unknown evil lurking in the darkness, creatures with supernatural powers
make great movies and books because they tap into primitive, perhaps innate,
fears and apprehensions, dreams and fantasies, to produce the tension that
is necessary to make a good story. (return)
Copyright © 2003 Steve Falkenberg